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Goku: Hello everybody, and hope you're having a fantastic day wherever you are in the world. It is a pleasure to be here today. Sleepr, how are you doing? It's just such an honor to be here and helping to be part of this occasion that is happening. I don't know even what else to describe it as other than an occasion because this rollout has been so amazing and so much hard work for the past. Really, it's been years, but let's call it months from both yourself and the amazing team at scene is coming to fruition here.

Sleepr: It's been months and months and years in the waiting. But we're so excited here in London. I’ve been racing around all day and all week getting things prepared and there's a million moving pieces. This is all happening. Get realized and come to life is incredibly exciting and just feeling very proud right now and really excited to see what happens on Friday night.

Goku: Incredible. It's such a unique way to enter into an event as well. Typically in this space, when you think of an exhibition as happening, it involves a sail that is in the air kind of looming. And it's really interesting, as many of you listening have seen, and if you have not, it's really quite an impressive feat that all 12 artworks sold, and I believe all sight unseen. And long before this exhibition was even announced, I believe, which is also a very interesting feat in addition to this just amazing artworks. Let's talk a little bit about that before we dive deeper into the works and just kind of how that's feeling. Going into this would just unbridled creativity and not having to focus on this sale element.

Sleepr: It's a complete flip to the traditional model where the exhibition is designed around a sales point. It really isn't that for us here. This is more actually about a presentation maybe is the right word, or a celebration of the art and the artist, and less really about the sales point. Just to be clear that only nine works sold and we purposefully left three. There were more people who contacted through DM's and other channels, but we just put a hard clamp on those being sold because we want those to be only available to traditional collectors or curators or gallerists who are coming on over the week and on this event night. So we've allocated a small portion dedicated to those. And I think that represents a really nice balance between the digital and the traditional spaces colliding which this whole exhibition is designed around. But, even to your first point, the most interesting part of all this was that these works were sold blind. And I think that's a real testament to the collectors and there maybe not just trust and faith in the artist and artistry, but it was really about galvanizing for a much bigger thing than just a single piece of work or just a single artist. I think that this represents something for this space. It represents something for seeing the representation represents something bigger. And so everyone kind of joined forces to enable that to happen. And, of course, those funds ended up becoming what was required to put on such an event. So it's become now bigger than just a single exhibition. Many other sole artists have done their own traditional art shows in gallery spaces, so I'm certainly not the first. But I think supporting that direction of Solana artists in a larger term, like the digital artists in this space to expand into greater territories in the physical world and that bridging between digital and traditional collectors and curators.

Goku: That's beautifully said. I think it goes to show and the way that this has all been rolled out in a very public manner is a bit of an educational process as well. Not just Solana, but all of digital art on chain is a bit naive and young still as we all know. And I think that having this be so out in the open and being such a public, you're kind of watching it all unravel is allowing people to learn that exhibitions don't just come out of thin air, a lot of hard work, a lot of moving pieces. And of course, you're trying to match a vision that you have in your head, which is always such a near impossible task especially for artists who are visionaries that are battling budget constraint and spaces that they're showcasing in. So again, I just really have to commend you and the team for choosing to do so in such a public manner, because I do think that there's a lot of benefit towards that. And again, it doesn't have to be necessarily at the scale that this is happening, but it goes to show that I think if you want an exhibition done the way that it needs to be done for your own art, to take that power into your own hands, to take that power into what you want to present to the world.

Sleepr: I totally agree, and there is no right way to do it. And there's infinite kind of variations for each artist as to what that looks like. One of the interesting qualities here is that we're from the NFT side, obviously. But these works are gigantic printed framed pieces, and yet they're still not being treated as the originals. We're still really representing and allocating the ownership and the authenticity to the digital work on chain, which I think is all the benefits of the NFT. But then we want to see them and enjoy them in person and have drinks and music and have people be able to get right up close to them and look at the thing. We don't want to look on our phones to see or enjoy the art. So straddling the complexity around having printed works and then having original works on chain and which is the original and which isn't. And there's a whole sleuth of complexity that occurs when trying to figure all this stuff out. So it's been really enjoyable. And I genuinely do feel a number of us are having to solve new and emergent issues for this type of bridging between these two spaces that both the traditional and the digital world. I think there's a whole host of new problems that are coming up. Where should it be? How does someone purchase a work in person? How does someone off the street who doesn't have a wallet buy the work, and how do they show it on their wall? And how do I send a framed work overseas? There's a whole host of things that have been resolved through this show as well.

Goku: It's kind of the beauty of uncharted territories or briefly charted, if you would. I can't wait. I think that we're going to have to do a post mortem from this event just to hear some of the conversations that were had. And again afterwards, I would love to get some people who were there privy to the conversations that were happening in the room, because it's just so interesting, like you said, start to be on the tip of the spear that is translating these worlds. And being part of that bridge between these worlds. So really excited to hear from that. But let's steer things away from the exhibition for a moment and back into the art. Many of us here in this room and on Solana are very familiar with your style, which I feel like has consistently been evolving and getting ever deeper. I would love to start with just where did this collection come from? How long has this been in the works artistically? Not from a release standpoint, and would love to get some of that background.

Sleepr: Absolutely. So really at the start of this year, in December, I went to Miami for Art Basel and was doing the artist residency there. And up before then, I hadn't made a work for maybe two or three months, and then was really kind of waiting out for Art Basel Miami. And when I was there, I spent five days locked in this box that I was making one work and spending hours and hours a day adding and adding details onto this one really complex piece and then it was the start of the year. And by that time, we were already talking about, we want to do a collection that really pushes the envelope on the quality and the complexity and on-boards new people as well into the Sleepr world. And how do you go about navigating that difficulty of onboarding new people? So it was a really fresh slate at the start of the year. And I just hung down for probably about three or four months to make these works. And my process in the past has always used, I've got notebooks, and notebooks are kind of ideas picked up over time. So I've got a really rich history of kind of things that I can draw upon. I feel like I could make hundreds more works moving forward. I've got all these kind of cool ideas. But when I was started making the work, I always use 3D as a really critical part to lay out a scene and lay out a spatial, physical location. And I position myself in that space. So I always normally use 3D, but then I kind of move back into a much more abstracted, this super flat world that's got really mind bending. I guess a bit of complex lens to view this hyper dimensional space through. And when I was making the works, I'd gotten up to a normal point in the workflow where I created these 3D scenes. Then I was kind of chatting with Toshi and Boo about some feedback around the work and seeing how it was feeling, and suddenly it became clear that actually the 3D works on their own were just really crystal clear in the concept and the idea. And that clarity really clicked with me in it being, there wasn't anything else to add beyond that. And so for me, it was a real pivotal moment of this is really a change in style. This is a developmental twist. But I've always been really authentic in feeling like whatever looks the best, whatever feels right for the work is where it should go. So it was a really natural development of saying, “You know what, these works look amazing as they are in straight 3D. I don't need to re-illustrate over the top or super flat them up and twist them and remix them.” The style emerged naturally from just an existing workflow, but then actually stopping halfway and then going back and kind of adding more detail, knowing that that was where I was going to end or pause the work.

Goku: It sounds like a lot of inspiration came from that artist in residency program at Basel. And I think that you really see that in some of the works. And it's interesting a lot of times with solely super flat based work, the eyes wanted to start to create figurative elements. And I think it's interesting now that there is some more elements of a figure, whether it be, you can actually tell the room that you're in, you get a different feeling of shapes, characters that are actually there, and kind of help to tell this story. And I really enjoy that change in the way that you're getting even clearer in the story that is being said, “Beyond the feeling that you walk away from.”

Sleepr: You totally nailed it. I also knew that for this show, I wanted to make it very easy to onboard into really complex world of Sleepr. It is complex enough to tell what the goal of the work is and what my history is and what my research is about. And it's kind of kneeling and kind of holding their hand up as they look at this truly psychedelic circular and radial tunnel of almost peacock teardrops. And I find it really interesting because a lot of the early abstract work reflects a point of view inside of the hallucination world that I'm really familiar with. But a lot of these works are actually almost like third person of those point of view experiences. So normally, I would take that Mandala Tunnel of peacock teardrops, and I would make work where I'm almost in the middle of it, and it would feel a bit chaotic and overwhelming. But I think what's interesting here is to move from point of view to third person, where you're actually seeing some other figure who's got their point of view of that actual piece. And I haven't actually seen many others around the world do that third person perspective of the hallucinogenic worlds. So it's like you're watching someone else experience it. Again, it's this kind of change and twist in style, but if you go look through the work and deeply in it, it feels quite connected and just like a small shift or a small step rather than a real 180 or something like that.

Goku: I completely agree. It almost like the lens zoomed out, or you change the lenses. And of course, that's what perspective is at the end of the day anyway. But I find that very fascinating. And going through each of these works, I noticed some tie-ins between them. I don't have the works pulled up in front of me. I'm doing it right now. A few of your works inside of the pieces, which is really fascinating, and I think ties your work together so beautifully. I'm going to pull up the exact example now, and I'll pin it as well.

Sleepr: You're right. There's one called “The bedroom explorer” that's got the figure of the boy in a bedroom, and he's levitating off his bed, and then his spirit body is levitating out of his body. And then it's all going into this tunnel. But in the corner of the room, you can see an artwork on the wall. And inside of it, it's got an even more simplified, crude, kind of abstracted version of an addition that I minted on exchange, which was called “Under the sea”. And I find it really cool because it's this. It's kind of referential to the Sleepr world. At one level it's like the character itself is almost like maybe a fan of Sleepr and is doing their own inner explorations of these hidden worlds. But at another level, at a Meta level about the artistry, it's a 3D scene that's very clear, referencing a simpler 2D flat world that's a little window on the wall. And so it's both a reference to this tension between a 3D and 2D style of work and 3D, 2D spaces, and then it's also this reference to a fan who is doing their own inner exploration work because of Sleepr. So it was a cool little Easter egg to put into the bedroom explorer.

Goku: It's so interesting that I find that these works are trying to translate a lot of things, but are doing so in a way that it's not so in your face. The viewer can choose to peel back at their own speed and what they register and see in the piece the most. And then you start to go into these Easter eggs once you start paying attention to them. I think that's really a fascinating way to make someone come back. And I'm going to be so curious again to hear the feedback from people seeing these pieces at large scale. Of course, many of us are zooming in on computer screens, which are not doing justice to try to see these bits of detail, but having people actually be able to connect to different shapes, colors, perhaps things that feel somewhat familiar to them, they don't know why, and then they begin to ask questions and dig deeper into it. I think it's really quite intriguing the way that is allowing the viewer to choose their own journey, if you would.

Sleepr: I completely agree. And the whole point of the twelve works was actually for no work to be in a similar aesthetic and for no work to be in a similar physical location or for no work to be in a similar time period. Each one of these works moves between almost an ancient times. There's ones that are underground in almost an Egyptian bunker or pyramid, and then they move all the way up to really futuristic works. There's pieces in suburbia in a bedroom, and then there's pieces in the jungle, and you couldn't get more divergent. There's a piece called “The magician's chest”, which is done in a real old masters style. And then there's almost cartoonish piece like the source of novelty that's done with kids toys.

Sleepr [Continues…]: So the whole point is that it moves across so many different styles, aesthetics, time periods, different physical locations. And so each one of those really gives an inlet to different types of viewers and collectors. There's an inlet for anyone to enjoy the work. And that just bleeds on from the point you were making about even inside of a single work, there's many different depth levels. So you can just enjoy the work from beautiful colors. It may be just an explosion of different faces or cool trippy patterns or colors, but underneath the hood, there are many levels of meaning about why the work was created or the research that was done in preparation for creating that work. So I think of the work almost like a mirror. It just really matches as to where you're up to. And because there was so much depth in the creation of the pieces, it will match. There'll be something there for everyone.

Goku: I think that does an amazing job, too, of showcasing the elements of the subconscious and psychedelia that are permeated through all levels of culture and time. And that's something that I registered with when I was going through the pieces the first time is just kind of how it goes across all of these different things. When you think of the greater you, whenever people tend to think of psychedelic art or psychedelic inspired art, it's something that they consider to be maybe on the nose a bit more or a little bit more in your face, on what you expect it to be. And I think that it breaks away from some of those clichés that maybe the art that is known to come from this realm that has and gets a little bit deeper. And like you said, those things are really crucial to the identity of psychedelia. So that's great that those elements are there and there's some of those in your works as well. The colors, some of the patterns that transcend beyond culture and timeframe that are what some of this is known for. But then like you mentioned, there's the ability to get deeper into some of these concepts and ways of getting deeper into the subconscious of what you're learning here.

Sleepr: That was perfect. And I totally agree. The psychedelia and psychedelic art really had a very interesting and almost cringe worthy history. There's a lot of interesting aesthetics that were born out of it, but it's become quite cliche. You warp something or you put a rainbow hue over the top of everything or it's all squiggly lines and it's warping things. There's a bunch of tropes that psychedelic art have rehearsed over a long period of time and they're rooted in a truthfulness of the experience. But the past 20 years for me of experiencing really high dose psychedelic experiences, I've experienced so much and so much richness that the areas that I'm drawing upon are so widely varying and nuanced. And that was one of my major inspirations for sitting in that area or calling myself a psychedelic artist was like, “Oh my God, there's so much more to it than what's been actually documented.” And I think there's another subcategory of psychedelic art that's called “Visionary Art” which has really tried to do this job as well. I think of artists like Alex Gray, I think of Pablo Amaringo who's a Peruvian artist who takes Ayahuasca and documents his visions. I think in the future there will be a resurgence of these early visionary artists, along with psychedelic art, having people looking at that. But I think for people a little bit more attuned to the quality of documenting the visions, it will be a visionary artist and that genre who people go explore. I'm so much more interested than just the aesthetics. I'm interested in things like the feeling of time dilation or the feeling of destiny, or encoded intentions in the work that all these other qualities or the feeling that there's something more, all these qualities that are more than just some of the few things that trippy art or psychedelic art constantly do. So a lot of those are emotional or cognitive or psychological values that you've got to try to tactically approach as an artist to how you intertwine and include those qualities in the actual works themselves. So it's one of the greatest challenges of our time. I don't think this is a small feat, and I don't take this as a light challenge. This is my lifelong work. And I've chosen this for a very specific reason, because I think that it will reveal very important qualities, perhaps not just cognitive qualities, about our brains or about our minds or consciousness that we don't know yet, but I think that it may even reveal perhaps things like hidden dimensions or hidden infrastructures of information, and the way that information can be shared amongst individuals through things like telepathy and through group hallucinations. I don't think these things are just byproducts of drug taking. I think they're actually revealing a very, very important and deep infrastructure of information transfer that happens in consciousness and with the things around us. I think in the future we will see things like communication between plant and human to be a much well-documented field of study. I think things like communication between animal and human to be much richer. I feel like messages from the future, or messages being transferred across space and time, all of these things will end up becoming understood better than they are currently. And I think that these early visionary artists are starting to touch on documenting those qualities.

Goku: I've had the privilege of writing an editorial for yourself and this amazing body of work. And something that is very fascinating to me is the way that you describe that words often are not adequate. And that's what kick started your exploration into translating this into a visual language. I would love to touch on that for a little bit because I find it really fascinating. And something that many might not know about kind of the way that you approach your artwork and you mentioned your diary, that you have this endless inspiration. How does that process go from translating these journeys back into visual cues?

Sleepr: This is the most important topic of all. Because currently 99.9% of research in the psychedelic space is done through language. And it's done through trip reports, it's done through therapy sessions where people talk about what they experience. It's done through cognitive scientists doing research with people. And then they do an interview after the experience, and ask them what they saw. There is 0%, maybe 0.001% of research that is done using the visual arts. And my PhD, that was done in 2011 or 2012 or something like that. The whole point of it was the arts should be used here as the primary source for documenting these visual hallucinatory qualities. And the aesthetics of these visual hallucinations are going to reveal cognitive properties over how they had to be, over how they were constructed. You can reverse engineer from the visual aesthetics that are same, you can reverse engineer cognitive neuro properties and you will be able to decode and break down how this imagery was constructed. If you can first tag and bag what those imagery are. Many studies have been done that do taxonomies. They do Ayahuasca taxonomies. And they say, “Oh, there are 50 categories of things that are commonly seen. One is colorful serpents. Another is angelic beings. Another is tunnels of eyes or tunnels of rainbow colors.” But there is an infinite variation of what those things really look like. And what someone may call an angelic being, someone else may call something entirely different. And so the language itself can become quite confusing. It can really lead you in the wrong direction. So I really abhor the limits of language. It's very, very problematic. Now, I only take notes to internally remind myself of what my visual memory bank has. My notes will be quite scrambled. They'll say things, of course, like a tunnel of eyes appeared. But all that's doing is, for me, internally pointing and reminding myself of what that tunnel of eyes looked like for me, it's not actually what I go reference. If anyone else was to read my notes, they would barely understand what I've seen. So the most important quality here is the explorer and their efforts of how they are visually remembering qualities. That's been my hardest task, and that's what everyone's hardest task will be, is to internally memorize, have a photographic memory of when they go to these spaces and they come back to bring back at least one photographic detail. And it's infinitely challenging with not only things, you don't have any concept over what they look like, or they're infinitely complex, or they're moving and animating and dynamic, or they're actually interconnected with how your consciousness is interpreting it at the same time as you're viewing it. It is a very, very challenging task for the intrepid explorer to bring back those details. But they are the most important pieces of gold that the art, once captured and once locked in time, the scientists will then begin to re-decode what those properties are and where those aesthetics have come from. In my PhD, this was one of the real light bulb moments, was seeing previous research on things like geometric hallucinations, and then seeing the neurocognitive properties being decoded mathematically over how those geometric tunnels and patterns could be constructed in the hyper-columns of the visual cortex. And they found these very, very specific columns in the visual cortex that once attuned in a certain direction and specificity, would produce these geometric hallucinations. Now, these are called “Simple hallucinations” because they're just straight geometric patterns. But once you move into very complex hallucinations, like multi-dimensional spatial twisting rooms and beings and all sorts of strange stuff, that's where we need a lot more rich data to help understand where and how and what these things are. But I promise you, language will just always endlessly fall short. And I think what this actually does, my deep personal belief is that as a species, we will eventually ditch language. I don't believe language is actually very helpful in a lot of situations. It's, of course, helpful for us up to this time. But I believe in things like telepathy, where I can communicate a much richer and complex image or thought or value immediately if I'm able to transfer that one to one to another person. And language has been a handicap for so long and for so many people as it is a reduced symbol of the actual original piece of data. And whenever you transfer something into a symbol, you kind of lose its essence. It just becomes the symbol. So, broadly, there are deep problems with language that we all experience, that we all know. When I say, “Oh, I love you”, I don't really know what that means. All I know is my own interpretation of love and my experience of love, and not yours, that you meant. And we endlessly try to chase ourselves trying to figure it out what we really meant in any situation over anything, let alone some really complex visual experience that fits outside of the box.

Goku: Beautifully said. I mean, look at the space that we're in. I think 80% of most people's time is spent making sure that you know the way that someone is trying to say something or maybe it's explaining the way that you're saying it. So that's a very interesting thing. And I do believe that language was constructed based on visual cue. And if you look back at history, that's kind of proven. You look at a baby, an infant, what are they doing before they're speaking, they're seeing. So I think that there's something so fascinating about that, and you made my brain go on a slight tangent, so I'm glad I got that out. But I had a vision of a Sci-Fi film, and always where these higher consciousness beings, or a lot of times that goes into extraterrestrial worlds as well, there's a lot of crossover. But I think that it's very fascinating that oftentimes they aren't using spoken language in the way that a human would. And I think that it's funny to think of it almost as maybe something that will eventually be barbaric. And that was the tangent that my brain went on.

Sleepr: I completely agree. And I think that's a real pat on the back to all the artists here. We can all often forget what we're doing and why and whether it's meaningful? But for anyone who's experienced heartbreak or an epiphany or ecstasy, an artwork can elevate your emotional state to that space immediately. It can capture a quality of emotion that just really can't be captured. I think in the same way that a long passage of text may be able to. Of course, there's brilliant writers and all this, but I do think that the artists here have the ability to transcend the limits of language. The idea that a photo is made of a thousand words, it's a more efficient, a more direct, more richer and complex experience of emotions that you can capture through imagery. And so even disregarding my mission, I think that the arts is such an important advantage and evolutionary tactic for the human species. I think that it is much more important than just a cultural expression. I think that this is actually our new modality, and all artists in this room and in this space have the challenge of making me feel more or something richer or more complex than I've ever felt before. And if you can do that, I really suddenly re-believe in the power of art.

Goku: Incredible. Art is the language of the future. You heard it here, guys. And that's just so beautiful, and it puts so much more power back into the hands of the creator. Again, like you mentioned, a double edged sword that might have gotten us into situations that we're in, as people and as artists. And I think viewing your role in that way, as a self-role to others with your art, it's very fascinating and freeing. And I appreciate that perspective, especially coming through a market as we have and are in. Where art does not feel like the main focus. So what do we do? And I think that this is such a great showcase of the tangible what do we do? And of course, not everyone will be able to do the exact same thing, and I don't want anyone to do the exact same thing. But I do believe that every artist has something inside of them that they can activate in this way. Of course, you have this amazing scale. You're an amazing talent with such life experience. But, again, all of us have that in our own way.

Sleepr: Absolutely. I truly believe in all artists. I think anyone who takes on the challenge of being an artist is extremely brave and extremely courageous and should be applauded. They are the heroes of society. They're the ones who have taken the alternate path, the ones who have disregarded the existing limits of consumption and are now feeding back into the expansion of our consciousness. It's a very, very serious craft. It's a very important craft. Of course, this space is so predicated on selling and hype and collecting and all these other market qualities. But internally, in the private room of the bedroom of the artist, there needs to be a very serious integration of the concept that this is an important thing that you are doing. It is more important than you can see, and that deep belief in what you're doing to keep going and to keep pushing the depths, to keep uncovering more. It is even more important than what you thought your definition of success currently looked like. And what I look for in the arts, and what I look for in young artists and artists out there is infinite individuality. This is the time where you get to steer your own ship. This is the one time that no one else gets to decide how your piece looks or what you choose to do. You truly get to steer and lead us on this, on this new wave of ideas. It's such an empowering field for the individual. And oftentimes people feel compelled to make things because of other creators, or for what the collectors want, or this is what the space wants, or I should do this because of this reason. All of that goes out the window. And the most important thing is that you're making things that you think are really important. And what you like is probably what I'm going to like if you really authentically connect to it. So I'm all rooting for all artists and wanting to see as much creativity and originality and novelty as possible. I'm a novelty fiend. I cannot wait to see the newest thing that's out on the horizon and it's not just me bringing it back. There's a whole room full of people who are bringing back these goods for all of us to enjoy. And a timeline filled with meme coins is not really what I'm after. I'm after a very beautiful, constant feed of innovative and exciting imagery to tickle my mind.

Goku: Beautifully said. And I think a great reminder through your artworks here is many of those elements, and especially the fact that iterating upon old is also something new and something that so many artists get caught up on. They get caught up on even what you said, a lot will take that to heart and be like that means I need to find something that no one has ever done. That's not what newness is. And that it's important to remember that as you give yourself grace through that path forward. Beautiful conversation, my friend. I could literally chat with you all day as you know, but I want to steer it back to the exhibition as we're getting towards the top of the hour here, and I want to be mindful of your very busy schedule getting prepared. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about what some people should expect for Friday and onwards and how to get involved to come to, whether it be opening night or grander events throughout the gallery's opening.

Sleepr: Did you say what to expect on the Friday night?

Goku: A little bit of what to expect and then how people can, if they happen to be in London, get involved with this, if there's capacity slash, how they can come and view the artwork while it is open in general?

Sleepr: Friday night is going to be an absolute blast. It is kind of locked off a little bit, but we've got a whole host of things lined up to make this a really memorable experience. There's going to be performers. There's going to be a string quartet playing music in the background. There's going to be installation work. There's going to be a performance art piece. There's going to be these beautiful pieces on the walls of. There's going to be a lot of interesting guests and VIP who come along as well to have a look at what we're doing on Sol. And then it's open for the next week after that. And it's really open to the general public. So after Friday night, we're going to post the address and anyone who's in London is able to come through. It'll be located in Soho area. And it'll be closing on the following Thursday. And it's open 10:00 a.m. to 06:00 p.m. every day. And would love anyone who's around to come through and have a look at the work on the walls.

Goku: I highly recommend as well. Anyone who is fortunate enough to make it for opening night, go back and experience the work. Not during opening night as well. I found that sometimes, and of course, both experiences are very meaningful and needed. But having time to contemplate with such large pieces, you might have a little bit more time to really get in there. And that's one of my favorite things about viewing art in general, is not feeling like I'm being rushed personally, that might be a very personal thing, and no one else has that. But I really love kind of experiencing it in both lights. Because then you get the spectacle that's around this opening night, and then you get to view it as it stands and as it is, and some solemnness, which I just love doing.

Sleepr: I totally agree. And some of these works you kind of look at and you go, “Oh, I get that”. There's one of the pieces called Harmala mysteries, and it's an explorer sitting on a rug that's kind of looking in between three tunnels that got geometric patterns on it. And when you look at the work, you get it pretty quick, what the concept or the idea of the piece is. But if you read the description that's provided on the wall for the work, it begins to talk about a very specific plant, the Syrian rue or the Peganum harmala plant that's in the Middle East and grows wild. And its specific seeds are used as a dye for carpets and Persian rugs. And those seeds, once taken, they're also used as incense. But once those seeds are taken, they really cause a psychedelic experience to happen. And actually, the history of the idea of the magic carpet ride is actually born from the use of these seeds. And these geometric tunnels that open up are reflected in the actual rugs. And so there's this whole big story that's underneath that really makes you ponder and think about so much in the cultural history and lineage of those concepts that I enjoy just looking at the work. Now thinking about the history as much as just maybe looking at the work. So there's a great moment to have when you look at the work first and enjoy it, but then digging into those layers is where some of the real richness comes out.

Goku: I just have a mental image in my head now of being able to see this at scale and really dive into that. Like I said, our computer screens so often do not do us justice, and neither does my television. I've been viewing a lot of digital art on my TV, and it's not quite the same as the richness that you get from the canvases. Will it be there someday? Some digital displays are obviously better than my TV, but there's something that you gain from. From being able to stand so close and dive so deep into these pieces at that range and scale.

Sleepr: Absolutely. It really blew me away when I stood in front of the piece and went right up and had a look at the detail and how sharp it was and crystal clear. It was just such a wonderful thing to have a look at the detail and then be able to stand back and enjoy the piece. It being on a physical paper, the way your eye looks at it and where there's no light being transmitted from behind the screen. It actually feels a little bit more calmer. As though it's suddenly in a resting spot. The ink is actually resting on the page. It was a really magical moment to stand there and have a look at the physical version, which I wasn't really expecting, but very, very exciting to have a look at them on the wall.

Goku: Incredible. I want to be mindful of your time, and we're about at top of the hour. Is there anything that you want to leave us with here in relation to whether it be the exhibition, the body of work itself or just a tidbit of wisdom as we've been diving into as well? I would love to hear kind of your closing thoughts in relation to this. And just from our end, we extend a massive, massive congratulations, not just on the sales, which, to me, they come after the fact that you're achieving something that few have, and few have kind of been brave enough to try to do for their own art for a grander cause. Again, I really, truly appreciate seeing that and hope that it inspires others to pick up that torch and find their own ways to elevate their own mission. And I think that this is just a great reminder of that.

Sleepr: Absolutely. I think maybe the final thought is just that there's this really is the beginning for a lot of a continued expansion of the digital art space and NFTs. We're colliding with the traditional world. So anyone who is an artist or a collector in this space, I think there's a lot of hope. I think there's a lot of things to come. I think you should be proud to be on Sol. We've been punched down on a bit by big brother Eth, but I really do see that eventually the chain won't be important. There's a beautiful, wonderful show happening here for Sol. Sol was at art Basel Miami. There's plenty of fine art, traditional world expansions happening, and so there's a lot of interesting and exciting things to come for artists on all chains, but also for those on Sol as well. So not just hope for, but keep focused. It's in these darkest periods. I know it's been a difficult period recently, but that's probably where those with authentic goals will be forged, and they'll be rewarded later as well.

Goku: Beautifully said. And I couldn't agree more. Keep focused. And sometimes it can feel like you're standing still. That's just because the rest of the world's moving so quickly. And it's really amazing, like I said, to see the effort come to fruition here. So not just to you, but to all of the people who helped make this possible, a huge congratulations. I wish that I personally could be out there for this, but I know that it'll be amazing, and I will be living vicariously through everyone's experiences that they post.

Sleepr: Thank you so much, brother. And we really wanted to say thanks to the Sol foundation as well for their support. And can't wait to see you enjoy the works and see all the kind of feedback that comes through. So thanks so much, Goku.

Goku: Absolutely. Have a great rest of your day and keep going. I'm sure there's tons left for preparations for this, and like I said, want to be mindful of everyone's time here. Thank you so much for carving out space to be here with us and kind of dive deeper in here. Again, there's some things that language might not be the best at, but in this context, it's always nice to really get to hear directly from the source and go beyond the limit that your brain wants to absorb from a Twitter post and take it into this spoken language that we get to share here. Thank you, Sleepr. Congratulations. And everyone, thank you for tuning in here and supporting an amazing artist who is taking a huge leap here with this exhibition and body of work.

Sleepr: Thanks, Goku. Have a great night.